I don't get it... This is a combat basics page not a combat mechanics page. A combat mechanics page (which is harder to create for a MMORPG) has damage formulas, dodge formulas, etc... -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs)
- I think the artice still shows a good overview of the basics of combat for newcomers. -- Chillispike 14:15, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
The dictionary I have in front of me describes "mechanics" as "me⋅chan⋅ics -- (usually used with a plural verb) routine or basic methods, procedures, techniques, or details: the mechanics of running an office; the mechanics of baseball." If a page were to be developed on the damage formulas for every class they could certainly be called "mechanics" pages as well, but it doesn't invalidate the name use here in my opinion. I agree with Chillispike, this is a fine example of the basic methods of combat. Until we have other pages that off up those damage formulas etc, I don't see any reason to change the name of this page.--Kodia 15:14, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Combat Mechanics. Edit
I agree that this article could use a little more nuts and bolts of how damage formulas interact with each other.
I'm still in the process of learning how damage is calculated in this game and I haven't been able to find a central place where people discuss formulas yet but I haven't looked at end game websites yet either.
I did come across this formula though but I haven't tested it myself yet.
Damage = ((Base X Potency) + Ability Mod) x Crit Bonus
I think I read that they are going to revamp combat again soon I'll try to find that link again but I'm not really doing anything super hard in game atm so I haven't really bothered going after "uber" gear.
- Starting with base .. effected by Main stat
- the mitiation debuffs come into that too
- So you would need to calculate for CA's and spells like ((Base * (Primary Start/???) * Base Potency * Potency proc) + Ability Mod) * Migitation of Target * Base Critbonus * Crit Bonus proc * Double attack chance)
- for autoattack it would be with weapon damage bonus, multiattack, haste, flurry, weapon dmg, delay but not the potency
- And that is without chance to hit, casting speed, reuse speed, recovery speed
- -- 14:54, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
For the primary stat / ??? is that just a variable integer? Is that how the game randomizes damage?
What is potency proc also? I was under the impression that potency was always in effect but I could be wrong. Multiplying by the mitigation of the target doesn't make much sense to me either. Maybe it would make more sense if you described it. I'm glad you are knowledgeable about this as it could save me a lot of effort trying to test it heh.
This article really could use a better write up.
I'm thinking a good way to organize the article would be to start with discussing just auto attack damage. Ie. how your stats affect each swing of your weapon and how your enemies stats affect the chance to hit and how much damage they "resist / absorb / block / parry / etc"
Then move into combat arts with the same break down then do a third section for spells.
For a final section maybe move into a description of overall DPS and how resuse / recovery speed affects your total damage output.
So it might look like
- Basics / Autoattack
- Combat Arts damage calc
- Spells damage calc
- Overall DPS
- To my knowledge, the formula for how hard an ability (be it spell or CA) hits is basically what you had above. Each spell has a "true base damage" that we don't really see, since stats other than CB are automatically calculated into the values we see in-game on the spell examines. Call that TBD. That's modified by net potency, which is your displayed potency stat, a potency contribution from your base stat (str, agi, wis, or int), and any other sources of potency that might be specific to that spell (e.g., from an AA). I don't know the exact formula for mainstat-based potency, but I believe it's not a simple A/B; it's easy to check your value though, just check the tooltip on your mainstat in the persona window.
- Now TBD*NetPotency+CappedAbilityMod gets you the "base damage" (BD) you see displayed on the spell. Capped Ability Mod is just your ability mod capped at 50% of the TBD*NetPotency of the given spell. The next relevant factor is your crit multiplier, which is your baseCM+CB+iCB. BaseCB is the base crit multiplier for your class for that type of spell (e.g., Priests have a base CM of 1.2 for spells and 1.3 for combat arts). CB is your displayed current Crit Bonus. iCB is the individual extra CB for that individual spell (again usually from an AA). Your BaseDamage*CritMultiplier gives you the actual outgoing damage. That damage can be modified on the mob's side by it's mitigation or resistance, which is a simple multiplier (0.3-1) tacked on to your damage. At the mit/resist cap of 70%, it's a 0.3 multiplier (meaning you only get 30% of your damage), and at zero mit/resist it's a multiplier of 1 and you just get your full outgoing damage.
- Now here's the thing. For most spells, TBD is actually a range, so you apply the formula twice (one for min, one for max). Another factor comes in play only at lower CB and that is that any critical hit will always be a minimum of max(BD)+1, or the maximum your base displayed damage is plus 1. With today's high-end CBs that doesn't really play a factor much, but it used to mean a lot of max(BD)+1 hits back in the day (when we didn't really have much crit bonus and crits were actually "rare"). But that originaly range in TBD is where the randomness comes in; the game randoms against that original range and picks a number and then carries forward with the calculations.
- Autoattack damage is a similar formula based on your weapon's base damage, your "weapon damage bonus," which is basically potency for weapons (a 1:1 multiplier), the damage bonus from your DPS stat, any other contributions (e.g., from your main stat), then all multiplied by your crit multiplier, and finally again by the mob's mitigation factor.
- In all of this that only determines how hard a thing will hit. Determining if it will hit is a good bit fuzzier (mainly because the mob's don't advertise their avoidance and player resistivity or hit chance isn't a simple stat). Hit rate is easier to determine empirically using a real fight and ACT. DPS from a spell is then basically the actual incoming damage on the mob times your hit rate on it (which is rarely a constant because of debuffs and other procs), but then outgoing damage is rarely constant as well because of the wealth of CB/potency procs and increments these days. Multiattack is basically a simple multiplier added on autoattack DPS up to the soft cap at 600 MA (it drops to 1/4 as good after that). Flurry is basically an extra 2-4 hits where how many hits is randomly chosen each time (so roughly equivalent to 3MA per 1 pt flurry). Things get even messier in figuring out net practical DPS when you start adding procs on, because things really run the full gamut there.
- The tl;dr:
- Ability Damage=(Base*NetPotency+CappedAbilityMod)*(BaseCB+AllCB)*(1-MobsMit%)
- Weapon Damage=(Base*NetDmgBonus*DPSBonus%)*(BaseCB+AllCB)*(1-MobsMit%)
- --lordebon (talk) 17:15, October 7, 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for the more detailed description of the combat system and some of the issues people have had with locking down how exactly it "works". If you don't mind I would like to format your paragraph a bit and see about incorporating it into the article. Jado818 (talk) 15:43, October 13, 2013 (UTC)