Talk: Policy/Naming

Naming policy for crafted items

Could you please add the policy for naming crafted items? With the posted policies we should be adding the "pristine" in front of the name, but if I am not mistaken this word shouldn't be in the article for crafted items. --Ahrien 09:10, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder. I have notes on that too but haven't gotten that far in my transcription to the site. I'll be sure to add it.--Kodia 11:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

keep in mind the changes of the crafting system, and the naming. many items new items dont have "pristine" at the beginning, yet armor does to please the masses who search on the broker for "Pritine blah blah blah". and since things are pristine or nothing now, that might change how we do things here, as someday someone will get around to adding more and more crafted armors/weapons/stuffs. --Uberfuzzy 02:03, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

guilds

what do we do in the case of a 2 guilds wanting pages on the wiki with the same name, on different servers? maybe go the standard disambig route? "Wrath (Blackburrow Guild)" and "Wrath (Other Guild)" ? --Uberfuzzy 02:03, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

The policy has been updated accordingly to account for this eventuality. --Kodia 14:47, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Images

Suggestion: add images to the policy, with the standard item/equipment image name being itemname.jpg (that would match the default iname search) and maybe even equipped version being itemname_(Worn).jpg or itemname_(Equipped).jpg. --lordebon 17:45, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Would be nice for house items too, like:

• Note: A uploaded image with the same name like the itemname must show the examine Window of the item.
• Note: A uploaded image of a placed house item shouldn't match the itemname, a suffix like (Visible) is the best option in this case.
  • Example: The item Legend's Food Cart
    • the uploaded examine window is called Image:Legend's Food Cart.jpg
    • the uploaded placed version is called Image:Legend's Food Cart (Visible).jpg

--   

Hmm. Yes, this might be a good clarification. Are they any objections to this?--Kodia 14:47, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Zones and points of interest articles

Current note: The message that appears on the screen always takes precedence over the quest journal name, anything that appears on the UI (such as the list of instance lockouts), the title of a map, or any name that appears in the log files.
regarding zones

I would like to say that this statement is only true if the message that appears on the screen is in white letters. If the message is in yellow letters then it's a POI and not the zone name. Also the zone name and the Quest Journal name can be different like Quests in the zone Moors of Ykesha, where the Quests are in the Quest Journal under The Moors of Ykesha.

I would say:

1. The message that appears on the screen is an invaild information, it's in yellow letters.
2. The title of the map is an invaild information.
   • It would depend on the ui you use for the map and the most use a ui mod for this i guess.
   • Soe doesn't support maps for everyzone.
3. The zone name from the Quest Journal is invalid, since it can be differnt to the actual zone name.
4. The message that appears on the screen is 99% a vaild information, it's in white letters.
5. The name of the Zone should be taken from the ingame compass or the "You have entered xxxxx" line from the log file.
   • Unsure about the loot line from log but i would say it's vaild too.

regarding points of interest

I would say:

1. The message that appears on the screen is a vaild information, it's in yellow letters.

--    15:01, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I think I'm confused as to what you want the Zones and POIs to be updated to. With the exception of the log file information, everything in the statement of the naming policy appears to be there. Could you clarify please?--Kodia 15:35, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

If you zone into a zone/instance and you get a yellow message then it's a Poi and not the zone name.

The general line "The message that appears on the screen always takes ..." should get clarified with a note about color for poi (yellow) and zones (white).

--    15:41, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Gotcha. Sorry for the confusion. Your initial list of information was far more verbose. :)--Kodia 16:04, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Fixed and clarified.--Kodia 16:10, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

im a bit confused now

policy says The message that appears on the screen always takes precedence over any name that appears in the log files

if i understand Chillispike right he says that zone names in the logfile are definitely correct, the onscreen white names are 'only' 99%, so the logged names should take precedence where it says You have entered ...

i always take the zone names from the logfile --Vraeth 16:27, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

A much simpler way of putting it would be "the zone name that appears in /who" or something along those lines. A /who done inside the zone always contains the proper zone name. --lordebon 16:41, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

The original policy was written to ensure the most accurate information based on the location most easily accessed for the information. The message on the screen is the information that people saw the most at the time the policy was written. The general consensus at that time was that 99% of the players didn't look in their log files. I believe that information to still be true. I did not change the current policy to include information about the log files being accurate because it would involve a change to the direct policy from its original intent. I did make the clarification to the policy so people could distinguish between zone and poi messages, however. If users would like to discuss including the log files as a valid source of information, we should open a forum discussion on it and make sure we discuss what to do in those cases where the message on the screen and the log files conflict. Please let me know how you would like to proceed and I will do my best to facilitate this.--Kodia 16:43, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I have no problem with the way the policy reads now. Rewriting it to make a logfile take precedence seems unnecessarily complex to me. It's mostly a common sense thing, and the actual SOE-given name of the zone appears many ways (the white message when you zone in, a similar message in your log, and /who while done in the zone). --lordebon 16:50, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so for the /who and the logfile, does the name match EXACTLY 100% of the time in all three places forever and ever amen? The original policy was written as it was because the various UI elements and the screen message, and the journal specifically did NOT match 100% of the time. If they match 100% of the time for /who, log, and message, that would be a worth update to the policy in my opinion, but it would have to be a consensus decision on the update.--Kodia 17:00, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Log and who? yes, the output comes from server and not from client as far as i know.

I would be up for a forum discussion for clarify. With titles of each place where the information could show up, so it's possible to say the pro and con of that kind of information.

For zones in discussion: Log file, onscreen message (white), onscreen message (yellow), Map window, Compass, Zone timers window, Guild window, Tooltip's, Quest Journal.

For poi in discussion: Log file, onscreen message (white), onscreen message (yellow), Map window

--    17:04, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I have never come across a case where they differed from each other (and thus from the 'true' zone name). Basically, if the server is the one making the message, it can be considered "official". But, if it is in any way possible to be altered by the user on the client end (as in the maps) or is not directly pulled from the actual zone itself (ie quest journal). So that gives the line in the log formatted as "(Some#)[DateStamp] You have entered $ZONENAME." When doing a /who, the line that appears both in-game and in the log is formatted as "/who search results for $ZONENAME:". In fact, I consider those two to be more reliable than hoping to properly catch the white message on screen. The lockout window uses the same zone names, although I'm willing to concede that it should not be considered definitive since it is not present for all zones. The map window I know is out, that is changed in the UI. The compass and Guild window should be OK, those should pull from the actual zone name as well. Tooltips on players in the group/raid window should be the same. And the quest journal we know cannot be trusted. --lordebon 17:12, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I'll open up a forum post on this then so we can discuss it. My only comment though is that I'm 99% positive that the compass isn't always the same. I'll see if I can poke Uberfuzzy on this one too because I think he has some of the examples of where it isn't matching. Look for the forum topic within the day (though it might be in a little while as I just had an electrician show up and need to pay attention to him for a few minutes).--Kodia 17:37, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Forum discussion opened. Please feel free to start a comparison there. Screenshots would be great for this discussion, I think, btw. It will really help us show the differences. (Make sure they're resized for the page). Perhaps we can put them in a table?--Kodia 18:24, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Name of Subclass AA

I justed checked my AA's and saw that the Warning wasn't up to date anymore. I went ahead and changed it to reflect the current nameing of the AA's with LU52. I changed it from swash to coercer since i know coercer better. The Policy says it should be named as if you look at it ingame as a Level 80 char. The Name of AA's changed in the way that the II, III ... VIII if not part of the Enhance AA since LU 52. --    23:10, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

We can probably just make the naming provision say that it should match in-game, since the in-game AAs do not change their names at all. --lordebon 11:11, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah policy kinda says that it should have the name like you look at them ingame.

2 Questions come up for me on this

• Redirects should get deleted i guess?
• Is the Warning still needed?

--    13:31, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I would say Yes, and the warning is probably not necessary anymore, since they're all the same name now. I'll wait for Kodia to give her opinion before going through and tagging the redirects AfD and removing the template, though. --lordebon 13:43, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Spell rename

Are we absolutely sure at this point that there are no spell names shared between classes? The Spells and skills section of this article should probably be updated (likely that last list and example removed) but I wanted to be absolutely sure the info was now wrong before it got deleted.--Kodia 12:34, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

there are none in the meaning that they should be disambigued. there are still some that are shared between classes but those are the very same spells, like Smite Corruption for clerics, or Evade for all scouts. there are, however, spells that use the same name as some AAs, like Bewilderment / Bewilderment (AA) --Vraeth 12:42, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

posting anyway =)

I'm 100% sure that some spell lines are shared between classes

For example:

• Mana Cloak is a Coercer and Illusionist Spell for example
• All Fighters have the Intercept Line
• All Scouts have the Evade Line

--    12:51, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

oh ..

by the look of it are few renames for classes missing Brigand and Swashbuckler for example

So i couldn't say if there are 2 spells with the same name but with a differnent effect

--    12:55, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Zones with [ ]

Since wikis use the [ ] for links .... i suggest that when a zones with [ ] are named with ( ) instead .. like Throne of Storms: Hall of Legends (Challenge). --    08:49, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Concur. --lordebon 12:40, July 6, 2011 (UTC)