User talk:Uberfuzzy/Archive 5

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New Timeline pages
I wasn't planning to do it, I was asking about changes someone else was making that created red links to non-existent timelines (part of the same issue of having different names for the timeline pages and the timeline link boxes). I expect to spend the next few weeks helping populate the Timerous Deeps and Gorowyn timelines; however, I was hoping someone else would set them up in keeping with traditions. --SwordMage 02:36, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, and I read over what you wrote about the timelines over on my page and understand what the design is. My problem these days is that the Greater Faydark/Kelethin, Darklight Woods, and Timorous Deep quest progressions don't fit the old model very well (and that model was breaking pretty badly in Antonica). In the last two cases, you are seeing 50-100 quests in a pretty logical progression all within the same zone, but with a much better defined movement from place to place. The problem is that a sidebar with that much information is too overwhelming to be useful (and you will notice that none of these timelines has sidebars).


 * For Darklight Woods and Timorous Deep, I think the best thing to do is just have a sidebar for each grouping of quests (in both cases, the progression takes the character to a camp with a number of quest givers with quests of the same level and overlapping targets, then moves the character on to the next camp). For instance I am thinking that there should be Timorous Deep sidebars for Chrykori Village, Trythec Loft, Pyrrin's Roost and Thulwun Station East, Gorowyn Beach and the Green Overlook, Mok Rent, etc; each one would have a manageable number of quests.


 * Of course, the other solution might be to split the timelines up into these smaller units. For instance, Timorous Deep could have a Chrykori Island Timeline (1-11), Gorowyn Beach Timeline (11-13), and Mok Rent Timeline (14-20). However, even these will be pretty big and I am not sure there is a similar split that makes sense in Darklight woods and GFay.


 * At this point I favor big timelines with localized or theme-based sidebars. I don't know if this is an issue that has been discussed to death or not and want to see what your take on all this is. (If there is a better place to put this discussion to widen the audience, feel free to move it there.) --SwordMage 09:52, 11 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you have valid points for all of your thoughts. We already have the precedence for splitting up Timelines into "series" chunks to make them more manageable. And the sidebar will get overwhelming for newer timelines. It wouldn't be that hard to put in at template for a series timeline but what about those that are quite short, perhaps only two quests long? At that point we then have to think about whether or not it's a useful addition on the small said, no? That or we need to simply be very careful about how we group the quests into series.--Kodia 13:37, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, I was thinking sidebar units that were 10-20 quests long (for instance, combining the Pyrrin'r Roost (2) with the Thulwun Station East quests since you run into them as you are following the transition from Trythec Loft to the station ("War") and they have the same theme (helping with the battle at the station). --SwordMage 17:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

At the risk of opening up a whole *new* pandora's box, there's something I've been thinking about regarding timelines. Timelines in general just barely predate my arrival at EQ2i. I've always wondered why we don't call them "Quest Arcs" instead of Timelines. Would it be worth our effort to begin a wholesale transition to the term "quest arc" throughout the site to better describe what it is we're trying to distinguish? Let me know your thoughts. (And Happy Thanksgiving!).--Kodia 15:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not sure that "Quest Arcs" doesn't paint us into a corner as far as including quests related by time and location in the same sequence. Case in point: the Timorous Deep Timeline is (and I think should be all of the quests that carry a new player from the Chrykori Village beach through to level 20 and the flight to Butcherblock. There are probably 30 or 40 quest arcs within that timeline, most being 2-4 quests in length, with one being the arc from the beach through the first flight to Mok Rent (there is no successor main quest line on the third TD island). At least with a time line we can organize the whole set of 112 quests into a cohesive sequence. This same logic applies to the time lines in Darklight Woods, and other starting areas as well.
 * It seems that with the newer zones (starting in EoF if not before) there is a pretty natural progression through the zones and can be expressed in a single timeline (or a timeline with links to all the arcs, but I am not sure I like that). A good example is the Lesser Faydark Timeline. That sense of flow through the zone would be lost if individual quest arcs were in separate pages. --SwordMage 03:21, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Quest template (prev/next links)
I almost hesitate to mention this since the QuestInformation template is so massive as it is, but I would love to see a prereqlist= quest list entry similar to the nextlist= next quest list entry. This in not so much because we will see many cases where two quests lead to the same quest (although there are some); rather, it is because we can then hand craft links (to get rid of the (Quest) suffix).

Case in point: Poaching the Poachers and Report to the Primary. Currently I could fix the Followed by entry in the first to get rid of the (Quest), but not the Preceded by entry in the second. --SwordMage 21:46, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * done. its called prelist --Uberfuzzy 06:43, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you. --SwordMage 08:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, I would do it if I could, but in your copious free time would you update the description of prelist= in the documentation section on the Template:QuestInformation page (still reads like nextlist). And you might add to both the secondary use of turning "Curious Ore (Quest)" into "Curious Ore". --SwordMage 18:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I gotcher back. ;-)--Kodia 19:04, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you both, front and back.--SwordMage 19:12, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Category sorting
I've come here from Wikipedia, where  is a mainstay. I'm adjusting to how things are done here, and in some cases I agree with different category sortings in the same article (Category:Ancient Teachings Recipe Books sorted by recipe name, for example, once I figured it out). I do NOT agree that single letters should be the rule in ANY category sorting.  As categories get larger and more categories come into existence, it will only breed confusion  - Category:Userboxes, the M section being a prime example of the budding problem.

Template:User Conn Nutmeg is the only location template that doesn't spell out its state in the template title. I added Connecticut to its category sorting in an effort to keep it with Template:User Connecticut. I made an error in logic. My bad. J a n z e- N e k  ComsCons 01:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * At the risk of sounding reactionary, I don't see that, in general, we have a problem needing a solution. Part of the reason I say that is that I don't think category lists are as important a component of our Wiki as they are in Wikipedia -- from what I have seen, most of our information tends to organize in tree form; I haven't found myself searching categories very often, if at all, when the alphabetic ordering (what I assume you mean by single letter sorts) isn't adequate for my purposes.
 * I find special indexing pages (Wizard) a more useful construct for things like expressing concepts like spell families. And our quest timelines (Antonica Timeline or Timorous Deep Timeline) are another example of this (they give us a way of customizing the presentation to the needs of the specific timeline). --SwordMage 04:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Me 'n' my Idiocy - Oops!
Sorry about the mess I made with the collection quests - I'll try to pay a little better attention to what I'm doindg, as well as fixing my mistakes!

Please be patient, it's this crappy north-coast weather!

UPDATE - Okay, I think I've fixed my errors - feel free to use the cattle prod now.


 * Can it be a really big cattle prod?;-). No worries, mate. We have info. More info than we had before. And we have you to thank for it, so thankyou kindly, sir. That was a lot of work and we appreciate it. I've not reviewed everything, but regardless, we have information we didn't have before.--Kodia 03:19, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

All*Cats errors
Sorry about that Equip/Equipment thing - I really have no clue what I'm doing here, so if you see anything else I'm messing up, please let me know!

On a side note, I saw on your user page you're from Cleveland - I'm originally from Akron. =)

Eavie
 * its quite all right, thats why i said something, now you know :) alot of things are around here are kinda complex unless someone explains them. no worries. --Uberfuzzy 13:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Looking for a Critique
Just curious to see what a 'master Template crafter' like yerself thinks about my first attempt. I only want to see if you think I am doing this right, and what tips you can give me to correct any errors you see. Thanks!

What does this information mean?

Used to define any item that can be scribed, adding a recipe to your Recipe Book

Parameters
See also:
 * Template:RecipeBookx, shortcut to example is:
 * Template:Preloads/RecipeBook

Leading Article resolution
I take it from some of FzyBot's latest actions that a decision has been made on the Leading Article issue. If that is the case, it might be worth you and K making an official pronouncement on the subject for the edification of your adoring subjects.--SwordMage 03:06, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Working on it! I needed to get some chores done around the house first and make a pot of coffee. :) You should see an announcement within the hour.--Kodia 17:20, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

AutoImage by LootDB
I tried adding the in-game link for an item instead of uploading the image to give the AutoImage by LootDB a try. But something is wrong or I am doing it wrong. Check Arcane Gauntlets of Clouds please. Anyway, it looks it's an issue with items with a - in the link.
 * no, its not you, or the itemname. i've talked with the admin about that issue. it does that when his system hasnt generated an image for that item yet, or there was a problem getting the item data from the game. its going to happen on new stuff for a little while after they get added. we're working on the code to get them fixed sooner. this was meant to be a last resort fall back anyway. --Uberfuzzy 12:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)