User talk:Necrotherian/Archive1

Yeah, it's actually kinda funny. I had started off using "LU65" for the first ones, and then someone went back and changed them all to "Chains of Eternity". So.. I start using that. Additionally, the template for new questswas written to use "Chains of Eternity". When I saw someone (you) started changing mine back to "LU65", I sort of questioned it, and reverted a couple, then saw that you had gone through and fixed a ton of them, so I just left them alone after that point. I'll use "LU65" going forward. =) -- Donhead (talk) 23:49, November 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually, I'd like to step in here. While it may be true we use the LU## for the "named" patches (ala Qeynos Rises), we do actually use the expansion name for actual expansions (cite: ROK Quests, TSO Quests, SF Quests, DOV Quests). It helps the quests show up in Category:Chains of Eternity Quests where people are going first, rather then Category:LU65 Quests --Uberfuzzy (talk) 05:27, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

If that is going to be the standard that we use, it should accurately reflect that standard in the patch field instructions. Necrotherian (talk) 08:02, November 16, 2012 (UTC)


 * Very good point. We'll make sure that gets updated. Thankyou for pointing it out. Also, in case no one's said so before, thank you for your contributions so far. We really appreciate it. Keep up the great work!--Kodia (talk) 13:11, November 16, 2012 (UTC)

Vanishing Act quest
hi there. let me explain you what i did with this link on the The Eidolon Jungle Timeline page. initially, it was linking to the Vanishing Act page, which isnt about the quest obviously. so i replaced the link to the disambiguated title, adding the '(Quest)' postfix. i wasnt aware that that page already existed on a mistyped name. that is, when adding these postfixes, you have to make sure to have a space before the opening parentheses. so, i moved the page to the right naming. the fastest way to link the timeline to the right page was to revert your changes (which was linking to the wrong page now).

as for using normal ... links, or the template, it doesnt make any difference when linking to already existing pages. so, i dont mind to leave your last edit as it is, but it is preferable to use normal links.

hope i could clear it up --Vraeth (talk) 17:11, November 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * As I have been led to understand, the nowiki link is only preferable when the display name is the same as the page name. To my knowledge, the wikified link is preferable when there is a difference between them, as was the case with Vanishing Act (since it is both the name of a quest and the name of a bard AA choice - something I didn't realize until your reversion, so thanks for the slight increase in my knowledge [not sarcasm]).  IMHO, though, a little more vigilance on the part of the designers would have avoided this whole problem. Necrotherian (talk) 02:11, November 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * yeah, well there are lots of occasions when the same name is used for different things, just like here. the workaround of this for wikis is to use the template, and make a main disambiguating page with the actual name pointing to the different appearances of it. i will go ahead and make that for this shortly.


 * another thing to note on this wiki, is to keep one conversation on the same page, so i moved your comment here from my talk page, and if you have anything to respond, do it here as well, please
 * keep up with the editing ;) --Vraeth (talk) 08:08, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

you fixed the pluralisation for this quest: http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Convenient_Conversion are you sure the items are in the game listed with pluralisation? if yes good, otherwise not. Rittmeister64 (talk) 04:08, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

The mob entries go in the general form Template|real name|displayed name. I only changed the displayed name.


 * ah now i saw it. thanks you Rittmeister64 (talk) 04:19, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

RfD
Hi, replied to your msg on my talk page --Xinturaia (talk) 09:54, November 26, 2012 (UTC)

nice work
you're doing an amazing amount of work. sorry about our different opinions concerning some things. have nice day! Rittmeister64 (talk) 11:19, December 2, 2012 (UTC)

Images
I don't agree that it's useful to have images of NPCs on quest pages. In fact, having excessive images on pages is harmful to editors who are using smaller screened computers and in-game browsers. The template is infinitely more useful for finding NPCs than a picture of that NPC's face, and the loc template is already widely used. Also, the cynic in me notes that no one even had the idea of adding unneeded NPC images to articles until badges that reward adding images regardless of the content related merits of said images were installed on this wiki. Jeff (talk|stalk) 15:27, December 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Necro, I'll say this politer and with more explanation later, but do not try to "fix" anything I've done, because it's doubtful my changes need fixing. My edits are done according to, if not policy, roughly 4 years of status quo.  Jeff (talk|stalk) 15:59, December 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * EQ2i doesn't have an official image policy, but it does have Help:Screenshots. My screenshots of NPCs were taken following this guideline and by noting that other users uploading images, including/especially the administrators, were careful to get the entire body of the NPC in question in the screenshot.  I understand that your headshot images were done because you think they fit in with the quest template better than full body images.  While that may be so, the fact remains that NPC images were never intended to fit finely with the quest template.  Jeff (talk|stalk) 16:35, December 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it is obviously redundant to have photos of questgivers on each and every quest page because IF you wanna see how a guy looks - just click on his frikkin name which links to his profile-pic anyway. The only exception that warrants more pictures are Timelines, Heritage Quests, Signature Quests. And I don't care if somebody ups his "highscore" doing it, it's just ridiculous to even start doing it. Would also be a first that I hear that anyone has to identify a questgiver via his profile-picture (as if the guys dont have giant lightbulbs, feathers, and whatnot glowing over their heads). Rittmeister64 (talk) 22:54, December 2, 2012 (UTC)

Which of the following two sentences do you think is more correct (A or B)?

A. Pictures of NPCs are useful on both the NPC page and the quest pages.

B. Pictures of NPCs are not necessary for NPC pages or quest pages, since both feature a loc that will allow the user to find the NPC.

Pick one. Necrotherian (talk) 00:02, December 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * Both of the options you give are biased. So unanswerable. In a nutshell: For a quest that sends you out to collect 2 rolls of cheese and a loaf of bread, NO, I don't need the picture of the questgiver. For LONG quests (like epic weapons) I don't mind if the quest page is a bit illustrated with stuff that is actually helpful. Rittmeister64 (talk) 00:29, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, option B is just pointing out that the following argument from Jeff/McJeff can be equally applied to the NPC pages as it can the quest pages:


 * McJeff/Jeff wrote: "The template is infinitely more useful for finding NPCs than a picture of that NPC's face, and the loc template is already widely used."

That argument can apply to the NPC page as much as it can the quest page. To use that argument as justification for one case, but ignore that argument when it equally applies to a different case is to introduce a double standard.

However, this part from you bears discussion:


 * "Would also be a first that I hear that anyone has to identify a questgiver via his profile-picture (as if the guys dont have giant lightbulbs, feathers, and whatnot glowing over their heads)."

Since NPC pages are generally not created for NPCs that aren't either questgivers or NPCs frequently encountered during quests, your argument about the questgivers and their feather/book/whatevs is equally valid toward the NPCs (except in situations that are infrequent - as infrequent as the limited number of situations where you'd need to use the pictures of the NPC as a guide, if not more so). (Granted, this does not include named mobs, but then again, those are usually not referred to as NPCs - they are referred to as Named.)

My point is that any justification for removing the pictures from the quest pages (beyond either spite or the "That aint the way we used to do it, galldurnit!" mentality) is equally applicable to the NPC pages.

I personally don't have a problem with them being on the quest pages AND the NPC pages. I think that this matter should have been discussed fully, and a consensus reached, before anyone decided to remove the images on 20+ quests. (Hint: The person that did that is the person in this discussion that is not named either Necrotherian or Rittmeister64.) I am willing to discuss any subject related to the edits that I've made, and I'm also willing to consider the other person's viewpoint. (That doesn't mean that I'll necessarily change my viewpoint, but it does mean that I won't dismiss the other person's viewpoint without honest consideration of that viewpoint.)

I've asked the admins to decide whether they think that the questgiver pictures should be on the quest pages. If they say no, not only will I abide by their decision, I'll help remove any of the questgiver images that remain (on the quest pages). If they decide that they have a valid use, I'll probably spend most of the day tomorrow putting the pictures back in. Either way, it will be more than just "I think it should be a certain way, so I'm going to change it without discussion." Necrotherian (talk) 01:22, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

Gentlemen, please see my talk page for my comments.--Kodia (talk) 01:26, December 3, 2012 (UTC)

Icons
Your icon uploads are also incorrect. You're cropping out backgrounds - don't do that.

First, go to Category:Icons and see if the icon you want is in any of the subcategories. If it is, good, if it isn't, upload the entire icon, including the frame and background (it'll be 42x42). And finally when you upload, don't forget to add  and the appropriate category to the icon. Jeff (talk|stalk) 17:08, December 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Since this is a separate issue from the quest pictures, I will elaborate my previous response to you on this matter, to clear up any possible misinterpretation, since apparently what I wrote was not clear enough.


 * "I'm getting the picture data from EQ2U's item database. When I have more time (i.e. on a day that isn't my anniversary), I will overwrite that picture with one taken from in-game at higher resolution."


 * What I was originally doing was, if I couldn't find the picture using likely keywords, going the item database at EQ2U, right-clicking on the picture, saving it to hard drive, uploading it, then attaching the icon to the item using the icon field.
 * Since your post above, I have searched exhaustively through the item icons, the furniture icons, and a keyword search if I couldn't find the icon, then looking for items that should have the icon (such as the icon for the Loincloth of Imperceptible Beauty, which, in-game, has an identical icon as Matoppie Fiber Drapes - in that case, though, there was no icon specified, so it showed the default legs icon).
 * If all of those searches do not yield the appropriate icon, I Alt-PrtScr the image from the EQ2U item database, crop out everything beyond (but not inside) the icon border (thus retaining the icon, icon background, and icon border). Then I upload it and name it similar to other icons (in the general form icon_ _01_(Treasured).png).


 * "I've looked for a matching picture (using the photo button in the edit screen - the first one under the heading "Add features and media", but I'll go ahead and look underneath the category, since it will probably show more than eight icons at a time. I don't like doing double work, so that might be a time saver.) If so, thank you for the info."


 * None of us knows everything, and once I learned about the Item Icons and Furniture Icons pages, I started using them. (See my previous note above - the one that begins with "What I was originally".)


 * "I'm gonna get back to creating pages for carpenter recipes, since nobody else seems to want to do it. (Heck, nobody has even put in the pages for the items from the Skyshrine recipes.)"


 * There isn't much to explain on this one. The skyshrine carpenter grandmaster books largely contain redlinks.


 * "Lastly, if I use in-game screenshots, I'll use the tag. And until they build a template for EQ2U attribution, they are either going to have to have to remain unattributed, or the attribution selection that basically states that the editor is not sure how to attribute the media. (IIRC, both of them end up with no visible attribution.)"


 * According to the EQ2 In-Game Images page: "Mark items with SS undefined to indicate they are SoE owned ingame screenshots."  Since the pictures I was using weren't from ingame, the usage of that tag did not seem appropriate.  As far as EQ2U attribution goes, if you know of an attribution tag specific to EQ2U, by all means, share it, and I'll happily use it (when the images or data are from that site, of course).

Pictures and Icons
From now on, if I can't find the icon picture within 3 minutes of searching for it on this site, the created page will just get published without an icon and someone else can mess with it.

Now can you please quit stalking me, MJ? Necrotherian (talk) 00:13, December 5, 2012 (UTC)